0097 | November 11, 2019
Humor:
What’s so funny?
The hosts take a personal look at what they find funny and why. Fair warning, political sensitivities aren’t off-limits.
| C.T. WEBB: 00:19 | [music] Good afternoon, good morning, or good evening, and welcome to The American Age Podcast. This is your host C. Travis Webb, editor of The American Age, and I’m speaking to you from very hot and sunny Southern California. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 00:32 | Hi, I’m Steven G. Fullwood, and I am the co-founder of the Nomadic Archivist Project. And I’m coming to you from Harlem, and I have a lot of laughter for you today [laughter]. |
| S. RODNEY: 00:44 | And my name is Seph Rodney. I am an editor– senior editor at the Hyperallergic Blog/Magazine. And I’m coming to you from the South Bronx today, and I’m happy to be here. |
| C.T. WEBB: 00:58 | This is to remind our listeners that we practice a form of what we like to call intellectual intimacy, which is giving each other the space and time to figure out things out loud and together. And last week, we wrapped up our 1619 commentary project/engagement with The New York Times project and moving onto something very, very different, which is humor. And [crosstalk]– |
| S. FULLWOOD: 01:20 | Because we’ve decided [laughter]– we decided to give each other a break. |
| C.T. WEBB: 01:23 | Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s a lot of– there’s a lot of heaviness there. |
| S. RODNEY: 01:28 | Mm-hmm. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 01:29 | Mm-hmm. |
| C.T. WEBB: 01:30 | And so the broad format’s going to be– we’re going to talk today about humor/comedy, just sort of thoughts and what we like and try and keep it light. I’m sure [laughter] we’ll probably fail at times. But [laughter] then after that, we’re going to each– |
| S. FULLWOOD: 01:45 | Keep it light [laughter] [inaudible]? |
| C.T. WEBB: 01:47 | Over the next few weeks, we’re going to each introduce skits– maybe if they’re shorter, maybe a couple, but a couple of skits that each of us likes, and we’re going to engage with them in the podcast together. So you’ll actually hear some comedy sketches. We’re going to up our production game a little bit so that our listeners can hear that along with us. And then, of course, we’ll have a wrap-up episode. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 02:14 | So my idea, just to flesh out what you just said, Travis, is that the skits, the sketches will be really clear indicators of what makes us laugh, what we find funny in the world. I think that’s the idea because I want to talk about why it is that I find the particular brand of humor that I gravitate towards, funny. |
| C.T. WEBB: 02:42 | Mm-hmm. |
| S. RODNEY: 02:42 | Mm-hmm. |
| C.T. WEBB: 02:44 | Yeah, right. Exactly. And so why don’t we just jump in. So, Steven, Seph, what kind of stuff do you guys find funny? |
| S. RODNEY: 02:53 | Okay, so I think I have a visual of what makes me laugh, and that is a fully-dressed clown in a church [laughter] sitting next to everyone. Now everyone is still going about their business. So they’re praying, doing whatever they’re doing. But there’s a clown over here, right? That, I think, really puts a finger on what makes me happy and– I like seeing things out of place [laughter]. I like levels– I like it when people are forced to think about something’s supposed to be serious, and it’s like laughing at a funeral. I find those things interesting. I find those moments to be really genuine human. But yeah, I think of a clown in a church. I think that’s actually it for me. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 03:41 | I love that. So I have a couple of anecdotes. One involves a friend of mine who we both know; Mingus. Mingus Damien Harrington, who I met when I was 17 and in the honors program at Long Island University, Brooklyn Campus. I was going through a lot of stuff with my father at the time– and you both know my relationship with my father is very conflicted and fraught. But I had a physical fight with my father at 18, I think it was. And I ran out the house, and my father was chasing me with a hammer. |
| C.T. WEBB: 04:26 | Oh, Jesus. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 04:27 | Yeah, it was awful. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 04:28 | Anyway, I called Lawrence, and Lawrence came and got me, and then I got my stuff later, and I never went back to that house to live. I was done. We were clearly done. So this is still painful for me, clearly, at 18, and I wasn’t sure what I was doing with my life. I was all over the place, and I couldn’t quite deal with school because I was going through a profound depression. So I had to drop out. And it was around the time that I was getting ready to drop out, and I was doing one of those late-night sessions with Lawrence and Mingus and maybe a couple of other people where we were just hanging out, listening to Pink Floyd or something and drinking. And at some point, I said something– somebody– it just came up; my relationship with my father, and Mingus said, “Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know what your father was thinking. He was like–” when he came after me with the hammer– “He’s like, ‘Oh, yeah, I’m going to fix his problem [laughter].'” And it’s so fucked up, right? |
| S. RODNEY: 05:34 | It’s so fucked up. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 05:34 | That it’s funny. It’s just funny. So one of the things that I’ve noticed so that there’s a running thread through my life is that I will laugh at the most inappropriate, awful, but in some ways, insightful kind of things. The stuff that goes to the– that puts the salt in the wound, that kind of humor really, really drives me. Here, let me give you another quick anecdote. So an example of me using this kind of humor. And you’ve both heard this before, I think, but it has to do with when I was visiting Toronto with my, then, girlfriend Maya. And we were on the street, and we were walking to some museum, and there was a drunk guy– clearly, first nations person, on the street in disheveled, dirty clothing– and it’s the middle of the day– it’s probably one or two o’clock in the morning– drunk on his shit. And I said something flippant. I don’t remember what I said, but Maya was like– squeezed my arm, and she’s like, “Shh, shh. Oh, don’t do that.” And I was like, “What’s he going to do? Cut me with his broken dreams [laughter]?” So that’s where I come from. That’s where I come from. That’s how I deal with the word. I will laugh at that shit because I have broken dreams, too, motherfucker. It’s not like I’m just laughing at him. I’m also laughing at myself. So that’s the kind of humor I like. |
| C.T. WEBB: 07:11 | Mm-hmm. So I think– I love– I have to say, I absolutely love Steven’s succinct encapsulation of what he thinks is funny because that’s not exactly it for me, but it’s so evocative of a type of comedy that is vital and important and enlivening. My tendencies– and I know Seph knows this falls much closer to his when it comes to stuff like that– I really– I mean, very transgressive, deeply inappropriate humor. The example and anecdote that is an example of that is I have a friend whose name I won’t give [laughter] just in case there’s any outside shot that this ever gets back, not to him but to his work. He is a supervisor at an organization that specializes in helping victims of crime. And it’s an important job, and their entire reason for existing is to help people who have been victims of violent crime; help them with expenses, help them with counseling, etc. And he was doing a– he was at a seminar for basically– it was co-sponsored by The Anti-Defamation League or something like that. So we’re talking about antisemitism and things like that. And it was a group project, and he said, “Oh, we had to get together, and we’re supposed to come up with a slogan for our group or whatever.” And I said, “Oh, did you pick Arbeit macht frei?” Meaning– what they said– see it didn’t land, yeah [laughter]. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 09:05 | Oh, no. |
| C.T. WEBB: 09:06 | This is on The Gates of Auschwitz. |
| S. RODNEY: 09:08 | Oh. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 09:09 | Oh. |
| C.T. WEBB: 09:09 | It says, “Arbeit macht frei [laughter].” |
| S. RODNEY: 09:11 | Oh, no. |
| C.T. WEBB: 09:12 | So [laughter]– |
| S. RODNEY: 09:12 | Oh, no. |
| C.T. WEBB: 09:14 | –“Work will set you free–“ |
| S. RODNEY: 09:16 | Oh, shit. |
| C.T. WEBB: 09:17 | –is what it means. |
| S. RODNEY: 09:19 | Oh, no. |
| C.T. WEBB: 09:19 | And, of course– |
| S. FULLWOOD: 09:19 | I’m sorry. That is pretty terrible. |
| C.T. WEBB: 09:21 | –my buddy– |
| S. RODNEY: 09:23 | This is terrible, Travis. |
| C.T. WEBB: 09:24 | -no, no, thought it was hilarious. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 09:26 | Right, right. |
| C.T. WEBB: 09:26 | Thought this was incredibly funny. So it’s one of those things like if he made that joke, he would be fired. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 09:32 | Right. |
| S. RODNEY: 09:32 | Oh, yeah. Immediately. |
| C.T. WEBB: 09:33 | This is like so far beyond the pale of what would be an acceptable and– yeah, so anyway. There you go. |
| S. RODNEY: 09:42 | Well, someone with a sense of humor like yours will probably get it and go, “Yeah, oh, yeah.” |
| S. FULLWOOD: 09:45 | Yeah [laughter]. |
| S. RODNEY: 09:46 | But that also says– go ahead. I’m sorry, Steven. Go ahead. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 09:49 | I was just thinking about how humor is a very liberating thing for that moment. For me, I’ve watched people say some of the most inappropriate things that I didn’t find funny at that moment because I was busily trying to be social or socially acceptable, but couldn’t stop laughing. I was just like, “Let me just stop. Let me just turn around because if they see me on this panel laughing.” So having to negotiate a space where– like the clown in church, right? Clearly, the clown is not supposed to be in church. He’s supposed to be in a suit and tie, just sitting there, whatever, like everybody else. I like those moments of disruption as I mentioned earlier. So I need those things to kind of feel sane. Almost like, “Does anyone else see this?” I have another story to tell you. My brief story is this; I was in Milwaukee with my grandmother who passed away in 2016. She was 97 years old. Grandma Correen, I went to go visit her, and she took me to a funeral at her church, right? It was her friend, myself. We were all walking there. I’m reverent and all that, and we’re sitting down. And so there are two choirs; there’s a major choir front, and then there’s a junior choir that comes up and the casket’s right there. So they’re paying her nice respects or whatever. And there’s an older woman. She’s sort of tall, got glasses on or whatever. Clearly, having a moment. And so she walks up, and as she’s singing, her dress falls down. |
| S. RODNEY: 11:12 | Oh, no [laughter]. |
| C.T. WEBB: 11:13 | Oh. |
| S. RODNEY: 11:13 | Oh, no. Oh, no [laughter]. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 11:15 | And, of course, I just wanted to break out crying laughing, right? So I just stopped because something in me said, “Look at your grandmother. Just look at her face.” I looked at her. She goes, “That’s the devil. That’s the devil. Mm-hmm, that’s the devil in the flesh [laughter].” Shaking her head, right? It happened again, I thought I was going to pass out. I had to go to the bathroom. I just said, “Oh, I just can’t. This is not the devil. This is a clasp. Grandma, this is a clasp. A faulty clasp on the–” but it was so good [laughter]. That couldn’t have been better. It couldn’t have been a better comedy routine [laughter]. We’re all supposed to be crying and upset and paying our respects, and then you have this– the skirt fell down twice. |
| S. RODNEY: 11:50 | Wow. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 11:50 | What’s a man supposed to do? |
| S. RODNEY: 11:51 | Oh, no. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 11:53 | But yeah, that was one of my favorite moments of my entire life. Yeah, so, anyway. |
| S. RODNEY: 11:57 | That’s hilarious. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 11:57 | But Grandma stopped me from laughing. She sure did. I looked at her face [laughter], “What am I supposed to do? Are you laughing? Because I’ll laugh. If you’re not laughing, I’m your good grandson.” |
| S. RODNEY: 12:07 | Yeah. |
| C.T. WEBB: 12:07 | Obviously, there are different theories about humor, right? I mean, it’s function and what it arises from. And the one that I am– of those that I am familiar with– I think Freud has the release one– but I like Henri Bergson, kind of like the turn of the [foreign] philosopher that has this whole idea of living versus the mechanical. And he falls into the vein of the incongruity is what produces the humor, right? So one expectation is subverted and another arises. And for him, it plugs into this idea that of– it engages exactly and reminds us that there is still movement in the world and that things are not locked down into one thing, and that shifts in perspective are not only possible, they’re likely. And I always liked that. And I hadn’t put together this piece until just now when we were just talking about it because, of course, I feel moments of guilt at the things that I think are funny. This idea that I make a joke about Auschwitz or whatever [laughter], which is, of course– there’s nothing funny about– I mean, it’s just absolutely– the actual historical event is terrible. But the thing that I appreciate about that idea, and where I think it actually is illuminating– to get a little heavy for a moment– about the animus that currently exists around types of comedy and what’s off-limits and what you should be– is that there is something very antithetical and Victorian about the policing of humor– |
| S. RODNEY: 14:01 | Agreed. |
| C.T. WEBB: 14:01 | –antithetical to living and Victorian and sort of– |
| S. FULLWOOD: 14:03 | I think so. |
| C.T. WEBB: 14:04 | — straightjacketed. |
| S. RODNEY: 14:06 | Absolutely. Absolutely. |
| C.T. WEBB: 14:06 | And that it’s precisely the play and the uncertainty and the difference that our cultural moment is terrified of. |
| S. RODNEY: 14:15 | Mm-hmm. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 14:16 | I completely agree with that. I feel really– if you can’t be made fun of [laughter], that’s a problem to me. |
| C.T. WEBB: 14:24 | Yeah. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 14:25 | That’s a problem. I know you’re not talking about the people who died in Auschwitz. I know that. |
| C.T. WEBB: 14:28 | I know. And you get exasperated when I make those qualifications, and I know you do, and I appreciate that. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 14:33 | My shoulders slump, and I breathe [inaudible] [laughter], but I think it’s instructional for the podcast for people to think about what makes you laugh, and do you have to feel guilty about it? Because I know you’re not– |
| C.T. WEBB: 14:44 | Yeah. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 14:44 | –talking about Auschwitz. And I’m not brilliant, and I’m just thinking, “Oh, no, that’s a joke.” So what happened? I want to know what happened in this moment where people can’t be– and I know that it’s largely tied to people making fun of people and dismissing them. |
| S. RODNEY: 15:03 | Precisely. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 15:03 | Right? |
| C.T. WEBB: 15:04 | Humor can be cruel. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 15:05 | That’s a different kind of joke. |
| C.T. WEBB: 15:06 | Absolutely, yeah. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 15:07 | Humor can be cruel. But it’s also, “Where do you want to land here with this joke?” And I think it’s all interpretation, obviously. It’s all interpretation. But I have laughed some of the most– I mean, I watch roasts and those kinds of things, and some of them are savage [laughter]. |
| C.T. WEBB: 15:22 | I know [laughter]. |
| S. RODNEY: 15:23 | Yeah [laughter]. Oh, my God, this dude. The one where they’re roasting– I don’t remember who exactly it was. It may have been Charlie Sheen, but this guy who used to– I think a guy who used to be on Full House, Cloris Leachman was on stage, and he said, “Cloris Leachman, you are older than the dirt you sleep in [laughter].” |
| S. FULLWOOD: 15:47 | Now you watch those, and they vary from Roseanne to Charlie Sheen to Rob Lowe. And Rob Lowe, it was really funny because the one they did on him, everybody finds out that Ann Coulter was coming and stopped writing jokes about Rob and started writing jokes about her [laughter]. |
| S. RODNEY: 16:05 | Of course. Of course. I remember some of them. I do. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 16:08 | I remember. And a friend of mine, we had the exact opposite reaction. I cracked up. I don’t like Ann Coulter. I think that she’s largely just a bunch of hot air and an opportunist, right? I don’t know where her politics really lie, honestly. |
| S. RODNEY: 16:22 | Yeah. |
| C.T. WEBB: 16:23 | I think that’s right. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 16:23 | So they went after her, and they got in. And I was like, “Whew.” |
| S. RODNEY: 16:27 | Yes. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 16:27 | I watched it every now and then. They have a little clip on Comedy Central [laughter]. It’s gold. I’m sorry, everybody has [crosstalk]– |
| S. RODNEY: 16:32 | One of the things they said about her was– they said, “Ann Coulter, the only Mexican you will make happy is the one who digs your grave [laughter].” |
| S. FULLWOOD: 16:41 | Oh, oh, ooh [laughter]. |
| S. RODNEY: 16:46 | Damn, right [laughter]. |
| C.T. WEBB: 16:49 | The one that I just encountered the other night was Zach Galifianakis on Between Two Firms when he asked Barack Obama, he said, “What’s it like to be the last black president [laughter]?” |
| S. RODNEY: 16:57 | Oh, shit [laughter]. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 16:59 | Yes, I loved that. Oh, my God. He’s one of my favorite comedians. |
| S. RODNEY: 17:02 | That’s hilarious. That’s hilarious. So I want to say something– well, I want to do two things. But I want to go back to your joke, Travis because I actually want to get at another aspect of it, which is the intellectual aspect of your joke, which is that yours– I don’t necessarily mean that this is completely representative of you, but there’s a way in which you have to sort of be a certain height to get your jokes because if you don’t know the history of Auschwitz, that would be completely over your head. And I remember having this conversation with someone Steven and I knows and someone Steven and I have in common– or know in common is Haru. I had told a joke in a group of people and Haru happened to be there, which was from that old TV show– oh, Frasier, Frasier. And you know the character on Frasier, Niles, who’s this very sort of patrician, very sort of also– just sort of scattered– |
| C.T. WEBB: 18:13 | Nervous, anxious? Yeah. |
| S. RODNEY: 18:14 | Nervous and– yes, and nebbishy. And the father is someone who’s sort of the opposite of that; very grounded, very sort of matter-of-fact about things, very macho and, “I don’t have time for your tomfoolery” kind of– |
| S. FULLWOOD: 18:29 | Right. |
| S. RODNEY: 18:30 | –yeah, yeah. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 18:31 | Crotchety old man, yeah. |
| S. RODNEY: 18:32 | Right, crotchety old man, exactly. That’s the word to sum that up. And he was dating a woman who was very– the kind of person that would drive Niles up the wall because she was loud and vivacious. She’s like, “Ha, ha, ha!” and she’s always laughing at the most inane things, right? And she came into the scene, and she says something, and everybody, of course, kind of looks at the floor in a way. And she says know, “What I will say, laughter’s the best medicine.” And Niles says under his breath, “Oh, I must be in the placebo group [laughter].” Right? And I repeated that joke, and Haru said to me, “Oh, see, you’re that kind of negro where you have to be really educated to get your kind of humor. And I’m like, “Really? I thought– placebo group?” But I feel like there’s an aspect to the anecdote you gave, Travis that there’s a kind of intellectual foundation that one has to have to fully appreciate that. |
| C.T. WEBB: 19:39 | For that one, I also like the sort of ridiculous physical humor, too. I mean– |
| S. FULLWOOD: 19:45 | Me, too. Me, too. |
| C.T. WEBB: 19:46 | –where the– what was the one with Robert Downey Jr. where it’s a play on war films? |
| S. FULLWOOD: 19:56 | Oh, yeah, Tropical Thunder. |
| S. RODNEY: 19:58 | Tropical Thunder. |
| C.T. WEBB: 19:59 | Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And the beginning– |
| S. RODNEY: 20:01 | And he’s doing blackface. |
| C.T. WEBB: 20:03 | Yeah, yeah [laughter]. |
| S. RODNEY: 20:04 | And he’s [crosstalk]. It’s hilarious. It is actually hilarious. |
| C.T. WEBB: 20:06 | Yeah, exactly. His arms are torn off, and he’s still firing. |
| S. RODNEY: 20:10 | Yeah, yeah, yeah [laughter]. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 20:12 | But he wasn’t doing blackface, that’s a different thing. |
| S. RODNEY: 20:14 | No, that’s– okay. No, you’re right. No, you’re right. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 20:15 | That’s a different thing. |
| S. RODNEY: 20:17 | He was made-up as a black man. He was acting as a– he took on [crosstalk]– |
| C.T. WEBB: 20:20 | Yeah. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 20:22 | And the joke is that y’all knew that this was Robert Downey Jr. |
| S. RODNEY: 20:25 | Right. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 20:25 | He didn’t overplay it. He didn’t underplay it. |
| S. RODNEY: 20:28 | That’s true. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 20:28 | It was a different sort of– it was a good performance. Yeah. |
| S. RODNEY: 20:28 | That’s true. And thank you for that correction, Steven. |
| C.T. WEBB: 20:30 | Yeah, that guy’s a good actor. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 20:34 | Yeah, he’s a good actor. |
| C.T. WEBB: 20:35 | So, yeah, anyway. And, Steven, your example of the clown fits into the idea of that I’m partial. I mean, it’s the incongruity, right– |
| S. FULLWOOD: 20:45 | Yeah. Mm-hmm. |
| C.T. WEBB: 20:45 | –of this sort of high-church moment, and– |
| S. FULLWOOD: 20:50 | Everyone’s supposed to do [crosstalk]– |
| C.T. WEBB: 20:52 | –yeah, yeah, just the disruption is just sort of sitting right there, but not being dealt with, not being addressed. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 20:58 | Right, right. |
| C.T. WEBB: 20:59 | Sort of not looked at, not engaged with. |
| S. RODNEY: 21:02 | Because he makes people uncomfortable. And by the way, that reminds me of when we talked about our favorite poems, that reminds me of the poem you picked, Steven, remember? |
| S. FULLWOOD: 21:11 | Oh, yeah. That’s right. |
| S. RODNEY: 21:11 | Remember, [crosstalk] in church and he’s performing? |
| S. FULLWOOD: 21:15 | Yeah. |
| S. RODNEY: 21:15 | Yeah, yeah, yeah. |
| C.T. WEBB: 21:17 | Mm-hmm. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 21:18 | And they took him out that church, put them in that family– what was it, a limousine? And took him to the home. I wanted to say this about a very polarizing figure, Azealia Banks– |
| S. RODNEY: 21:28 | Mm-hmm. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 21:29 | — the singer, the rapper. So I saw her on– |
| S. RODNEY: 21:32 | She’s a– |
| S. FULLWOOD: 21:32 | –I always get it wrong, Hot 97. |
| S. RODNEY: 21:34 | She’s a hot mess [laughter]. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 21:35 | Right. |
| S. RODNEY: 21:36 | She is. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 21:36 | And what she said was– she’s being interviewed, and she’s a smart-mouth, but she’s so brilliant. You just can’t– she’s her messy self, right? At one point, TI– another– she got into a beef with TI, this other rapper. And so he– I guess what he said was– he was talking to her about something, and he goes, “I need to talk to your man. I don’t talk to females–” that kind of nonsense, right? |
| S. RODNEY: 22:03 | Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 22:03 | And she goes, “Where did he learn English, The Freedmen’s Bureau [laughter]?” And I said– I stopped the thing, and I just started laughing, I said– |
| S. RODNEY: 22:14 | Damn. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 22:14 | –that whole level, like, “No one’s going to know what the fuck you’re talking about [laughter].” And they laughed, but I was like, “I bet you, they don’t know what the fuck she means.” I said, “That is– |
| S. RODNEY: 22:24 | Yeah, that’s good. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 22:24 | That means she’s talking about a moment [laughter], right? It just meant [inaudible] there’s a crashing in my head about how funny that was to me, and occasionally, I would just say it to people. I’m like, “Wow, now that’s some deep shit.” |
| S. RODNEY: 22:35 | It is. |
| C.T. WEBB: 22:35 | Yeah. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 22:36 | That’s a funny-ass joke. |
| S. RODNEY: 22:37 | It is. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 22:38 | To me. And I always will qualify, “Just to me. It doesn’t have to be funny to anybody else. I don’t care. It’s funny to me [laughter].” |
| S. RODNEY: 22:43 | Right. |
| C.T. WEBB: 22:44 | The other thing I was going to say. I can also talk about humor I don’t really go in for, although there is an exception to it. So I don’t tend to go in for really smug humor. So I don’t find someone– even though I appreciate some of the things that he does culturally as far as trying to advance conversations– so Bill Maher, I don’t find– |
| S. RODNEY: 23:07 | Yeah. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 23:08 | I thought you were going to say that. Boring as shit. |
| C.T. WEBB: 23:09 | I don’t find Bill Maher very funny. So even though I appreciate that he tries to get left and right together and talking and things like that. So I can bracket that part of him. But I just don’t think he’s very funny. And I just think because there’s this smugness to his humor. But you know who else that I think was very smug but was funny as hell was George Carlin. |
| S. RODNEY: 23:30 | Right, agreed. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 23:32 | Yeah. |
| S. RODNEY: 23:33 | Agreed. |
| C.T. WEBB: 23:34 | I mean, but he was definitely like judgmental and dark, but, man, was– and so that led me to– and so then my brain jumped to Eddie Murphy who did one of the funniest things– this is not going to be funny in translation, but did one of the funniest things that I’ve seen on TV. This was back on The Arsenio Hall Show. |
| S. RODNEY: 23:52 | Mm-hmm. |
| C.T. WEBB: 23:52 | And obviously they’re very close friends, and he was interviewing Eddie Murphy. And Eddie Murphy, he was– he’s like, “Well, how do you get on with other comics?” or something like that, and Eddie Murphy’s like, “Well, they don’t really like me [laughter].” And he said, “Well, why don’t they like you?” He’s like, “Because I’m funny.” And he said, “I could just look at the camera and just be funny. And he looks at the camera, and he doesn’t do anything, and it’s just really fucking funny.” |
| S. RODNEY: 24:18 | Right, right. |
| C.T. WEBB: 24:19 | And he’s like, “How do they do that?” “You just have funny thoughts.” And so [laughter]– |
| S. RODNEY: 24:26 | I can appreciate that. |
| C.T. WEBB: 24:27 | There was some– I don’t even know what it was. He literally wasn’t doing anything, but there was just kind of a humorous, funny energy in that moment that he was able to summon, and there are people that can do that. They just have– I haven’t met– so, Seph, I’ve met a lot of your friends. I haven’t met Damien. But this is sort of the way you’ve– without saying it exactly that way, this is the way you’ve described him often is there’s just kind of a funny energy about the person– |
| S. RODNEY: 24:55 | Yep, agreed. |
| C.T. WEBB: 24:55 | –that you just feel as another person. You can sort of feel that coming off of them. Anyway. |
| S. RODNEY: 25:02 | That’s right, yeah. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 25:03 | How do you feel– can you name someone else– not you, Travis– but, Seph, can you name someone like that? Because I have one person I had, but I want to give you an opportunity; someone who’s just funny? |
| S. RODNEY: 25:13 | You mean someone in my personal life or someone who does this for a living? |
| S. FULLWOOD: 25:16 | It doesn’t matter. |
| S. RODNEY: 25:17 | Oh. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 25:18 | I like to meet new people [laughter]. |
| S. RODNEY: 25:20 | Just someone who’s just funny? I think, personally, the only person who really has that is Mingus. I think Mingus just– |
| S. FULLWOOD: 25:37 | Mingus has that. Mm-hmm. |
| S. RODNEY: 25:38 | Yeah. But it’s also– I know from knowing him for many years that that’s also a defense mechanism, and he’ll say that, too. He’ll admit to that, that he just uses humor to deflect and not deal with some heavier stuff. I always thought that Lewis Black was one of the funniest– |
| S. FULLWOOD: 25:56 | I liked Lewis Black, yeah. |
| S. RODNEY: 25:57 | –people ever. And he was super judgmental and super [laughter]– and he’d do this thing where he’d do sort of like the jittery older Jewish uncle who’d get worked up because there’s two Starbucks across the street from each other, and he [laughter]– |
| S. FULLWOOD: 26:14 | I loved that guy. |
| S. RODNEY: 26:15 | –was hilarious. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 26:16 | I love that guy. |
| S. RODNEY: 26:17 | Love that humor. Yeah. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 26:18 | Now he’s always sort of full and kind of just got to the desk [laughter]. To me, he’s the embodiment from the guy from Network, “I’m not going to take it anymore [laughter]!” |
| S. RODNEY: 26:26 | Right, yeah. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 26:27 | He’s that guy in a comedy form. But Kristen Wiig, for me, can do anything. Kristen Wiig, for me, even the stuff that falls a little flat, Kristen Wiig can look at the camera and she’s just– |
| C.T. WEBB: 26:37 | And just be funny. |
| S. RODNEY: 26:37 | Oh, yeah, Kristen Wiig, she is. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 26:39 | And she’s a chameleon. |
| S. RODNEY: 26:41 | Yeah, she’s really good. Yeah, she’s excellent. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 26:41 | God, she’s so good. Yeah, there’s an NB– or was it a Saturday Night Live episode where Ann-Margret tries to throw away a piece of paper, and she’s like, ‘Let’s do this,” and then the music comes on, and she’s just dancing around. And the guy’s like, “The garbage can is right here.” And it’s similar to one she does about Liza Minnelli tries to turn off a light [laughter]. She does the things that the person’s noted for [laughter] straight-faced. And at times– she tries not to break. She says, “If I break, I generally will finish out breaking.” |
| S. RODNEY: 27:13 | Yeah. Yeah. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 27:12 | You know how Kristen Wiig [breaks?]? But what an actress. I love her. |
| S. RODNEY: 27:15 | Yeah. Yeah, she’s good. |
| C.T. WEBB: 27:16 | I also liked from– and I don’t remember her name. Maybe one of you can help me out. She’s on Saturday Night Live currently. She did the Hillary Clinton impersonations. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 27:26 | Oh, Kathryn McKinnon. |
| C.T. WEBB: 27:27 | — and she’s done Jeff Sessions. |
| S. RODNEY: 27:28 | Kate McKinnon. |
| C.T. WEBB: 27:29 | I feel the same way about her. She’s really funny. Even on Saturday Night Live, which is not that funny right now, at least, in its current iteration, but she will still be funny even in these over-heavy-handed Trump skits. Honestly, I feel like Trump has made a lot of comedians less funny. |
| S. RODNEY: 27:52 | Agreed. |
| C.T. WEBB: 27:53 | It’s just over-determined. He over-determines all the jokes. So you have nowhere to go. So just stop. Make fun of other shit. Just go do other things. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 28:02 | They got stuck. They hit a few– couple, really good routines and you’re laughing. And then they just decided, “Okay, this seems to work.” I’m like, “No–” like you, “Try something else. This isn’t working.” And I don’t care if your politics show. I just want them– at the end of the day, I want jokes from you. |
| S. RODNEY: 28:19 | Yeah. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 28:19 | Right? And smart jokes. |
| S. RODNEY: 28:21 | Yeah. Right. |
| C.T. WEBB: 28:23 | The best Trump one, I thought, that I’ve seen on Saturday Night Live, not that I watch it much anymore, was John Cena– is that his name? He’s like the action star– |
| S. FULLWOOD: 28:33 | Oh, he’s the wrestler guy? |
| S. RODNEY: 28:34 | Yeah, seems like a nice guy. |
| C.T. WEBB: 28:34 | Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he plays Trump, and he gets up, and it’s all just first-person camera. So all you see from him, other than when he goes in front of the mirror are how giant his hands are [laughter]. So his hands come up in front of his face, and everyone is just scurrying around and telling him how great he is. And the skit is that “This is what the world must look like from Trump’s point of view” or whatever. |
| S. RODNEY: 28:56 | Right. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 28:57 | Right. |
| C.T. WEBB: 28:58 | So, yeah, I thought that was a fairly imaginative engagement. |
| S. RODNEY: 29:00 | Yeah, nice. Nice, nice, nice. Okay, so– |
| C.T. WEBB: 29:06 | Yeah, go ahead, Seph. |
| S. RODNEY: 29:08 | –I think we have a sense now of what we want to introduce– and want to introduce to our listeners next week. I’m thinking that I’m stuck between two or three things. One is a monologue that Paul Mooney did where he talks about the differences in the ways that black people and white people are treated by the criminal justice system. I think that one is really insightful and really hilarious, and I’ve probably listened to it 20 times, and I still laugh. It’s either that one or Substitute Teacher by Key & Peele, which I still laugh at. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 29:44 | Yes. |
| S. RODNEY: 29:45 | I just think it’s hilarious. Or one of the bits from Patrice O’Neal’s stand-up, The Elephant in the Room, where he talks– he picks a white woman out of the crowd, and he talks about how valuable she is because [laughter] you can tell of how we would spend looking for her if she were lost. And then he goes around the room– |
| S. FULLWOOD: 30:06 | Oh, shit [laughter]. |
| C.T. WEBB: 30:07 | You’ve told me about this one. You told me about this. |
| S. RODNEY: 30:09 | Oh, my God, it is so good. It’s sociological. It’s intellectual. And it’s hilarious. Oh, my goodness. Actually, now that I’m saying it, I’m probably going to go with that one because it’s just– it’s everything. It is everything. And I’ve also watched that probably 15 times, and he still makes me laugh. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 30:30 | So what are you thinking about, Travis? |
| C.T. WEBB: 30:32 | So I’ve got a few. I mean, I’m going to actually re-watch. So Sam Kinison who I thought was hilarious. So I might go back and see how some of that stuff has aged because I haven’t really listened and seen it in a long time. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 30:48 | “Oh! Oh! Oh [laughter]! Oh [laughter]!” |
| S. RODNEY: 30:50 | Yeah, yeah, yeah. |
| C.T. WEBB: 30:52 | A couple of George Carlin skits. I love one where he’s talking about flamethrowers. |
| S. RODNEY: 31:00 | That’s already funny [laughter]. |
| C.T. WEBB: 31:01 | “I really wish those people were on fire over there, and if only there was some for me to throw flame on them [laughter].” |
| S. RODNEY: 31:08 | Oh, no. Oh, no. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 31:12 | That is awesome. |
| C.T. WEBB: 31:14 | So maybe that. I really like– I mean, I might not pick this just because it’s so– Dave Chappelle’s most recent– |
| S. RODNEY: 31:22 | Oh, my God. But he’s so good. |
| C.T. WEBB: 31:24 | I really– talking about inappropriate, I really thought the bit where he talks about– he’s like, “I’ve got money, but I don’t have, “Shut the fuck up, bitch’ money [laughter],” when he’s talking about his wife [laughter]. |
| S. RODNEY: 31:37 | Oh, my God. |
| C.T. WEBB: 31:36 | And he says that Kevin Hart has that kind of money [laughter]. But maybe I won’t do that one. But anyways– |
| S. RODNEY: 31:45 | That’s hilarious. |
| C.T. WEBB: 31:47 | –I’ll figure it out and send it to you guys. |
| S. RODNEY: 31:50 | Okay, cool. |
| C.T. WEBB: 31:50 | What about you, Steven? |
| S. FULLWOOD: 31:51 | So there are three. One is Maria Bamford. And a lot of her comedy centers around mental illness, and most recently she did– I would say– she’s got a show on Netflix called Lady Dynamite, which is one of her routines just sort of stretched out, which is actually quite good. |
| C.T. WEBB: 32:10 | Okay. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 32:11 | There’s two seasons. But it’s very awkward, and I love her to death. And then there’s Doug [Stanhouse?] who is just a master of standing on stage and riffing and riffing and trying to figure out a good comedy routine to pull out of that one. The third guy is Dana Gould, he used to write for The Simpsons and a few other places. |
| C.T. WEBB: 32:30 | I know Dana Gould, yeah. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 32:31 | Yeah. And so what Dana did, though, his father thought he was gay, and he was like, “Well, fuck it, I’m going to go to San Francisco and be the biggest gay [inaudible] [laughter].” And he makes this whole joke up about that he’s living behind the bar in a doghouse where he can just give guys head all day long [laughter]. And then he gets word from his father, “Your father’s dead,” and he goes, “What? No, no, no [laughter].” And then like that. And he does it so well. I don’t know if I can find it, but I’m going to look for it because what I loved about it was there were just three-level joke-telling about his father, homophobia– |
| C.T. WEBB: 33:14 | I feel like I have to tell our listeners that as Steven was saying that, he was still miming giving head. So that was [crosstalk] [laughter]– |
| S. FULLWOOD: 33:26 | All of the penises. It was just so good. I was like, “Oh, my God. This is one of the best jokes I’ve ever heard in my life [laughter]. What he’s dead? What? No, no, come, come. What, he’s dead? How did he die?” I was like, “Oh, God [laughter].” I love Dana Gould. |
| S. RODNEY: 33:40 | That’s hilarious. That’s hilarious. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 33:41 | So that joke alone. |
| C.T. WEBB: 33:42 | So, all right. Well, hopefully, we haven’t triggered anyone on the right or left [laughter]. So– |
| S. FULLWOOD: 33:50 | But if we have, you can meet me on the corner. You know where I live [laughter]. We can take this to the street [laughter]. Catch me outside [laughter]. Catch me outside, apparently [laughter]. Yeah. |
| C.T. WEBB: 34:03 | Okay. All right, my friends. I’ll speak to you next week. |
| S. RODNEY: 34:06 | All right. Take care. |
| S. FULLWOOD: 34:08 | Ciao. |
| [music] |
References
First referenced at 12:07
Henri Bergson
“Henri-Louis Bergson was a French-Jewish philosopher who was influential in the tradition of continental philosophy, especially during the first half of the 20th century until the Second World War.” Wikipedia