UFOs

May 10, 2018

TAA 0019 – C. Travis Webb and Steven Fullwood discuss UFOs. From the validity of their sightings to the possibility that they are a conscious manifestation of an uncanny universe, the subject is treated seriously–and skeptically.

C.T. WEBB 00:17 [music] Good afternoon, good morning, or good evening, and welcome to the American Age Podcast. Today I’m talking to Steven Fullwood. Steven, it’s been a couple of weeks. How are you doing?
S. FULLWOOD 00:24 I’m doing pretty good, doing pretty good. I had a cold, had some pollen issues, and so now I’m back on track.
C.T. WEBB 00:32 And you were traveling around a bit, yeah? You were giving some talks?
S. FULLWOOD 00:35 Yeah, I was traveling. I was in Tacoma and Seattle and Durham, and primarily at the University of Puget Sound giving some talks about archives but also promoting my latest project, which is Black Gay Genius: Answering Joseph Beam’s Call. Joseph Beam was the editor of the first black anthology called In the Life. He died two years after he published the book. So he never even got a chance to publish his second book, and so he kind of fell out of public consciousness at least in the black gay community, for the most part. So the book is a love letter to Joseph Beam as well as to people who were inspired by him, and so, yeah.
C.T. WEBB 01:12 Is there a direct lineage from– who are some maybe more well-known figures that Beam influenced?
S. FULLWOOD 01:20 Well, the people he worked with. Essex Hemphill is a really well-known poet. Cheryl Clarke knew him. She’s a wonderful poet, academic, recently retired from Rutgers University. Jewelle Gomez. There were a number of people he worked with in the National Coalition of Black Gays and Lesbians, which is the first black LGBT organization, and it started in 1979. So there were a number of people who worked with him like Barbara Smith, Audre Lorde, people he really looked up to who inspired him to do this work. And so yeah, it’s good being able to do love letter books, works that bring people back into public conversation as well as get them in the classroom. So the response to it has been really good. Even though the book was published 2014, right now I have some time to kind of take it around the country when I can to introduce it to a group of people– different groups of people.
C.T. WEBB 02:15 Yeah. And we were talking about it earlier, and you said the response to it has been actually, people seem engaged and hungry for some– a little bit more of the lineage and the genealogy behind sort of the movements that have come to fruition in the last 10 years.
S. FULLWOOD 02:30 No, absolutely. That genealogy’s really important when it comes to keeping people alive, and so his mother was really fantastic. So she said that a year or so after he died, when she stopped crying and eating, she decided she wanted to do something. So she ended up moving Essex Hemphill, this poet, into her house to help her finish the book that Joe started. And after the book was out, Brother to Brother: New Writings by Black Gay Men, she donated his papers to the Schomburg Center. So his legacy is set there because that’s where his legacy is, but knowing more about him, more and more people are starting to write more about him because he was a bit of an enigma for the most part. He published a lot as a journalist but not as a–
C.T. WEBB 03:18 As a poet.
S. FULLWOOD 03:19 –not during the time when he was promoting In the Life, which was 1986. So fortunately, I mean, virtually all his writings are there. There are diaries, photographs of work that he did on In the Life, the working papers, and so it’s quite beautiful that his mom would do that. And she’s a part of that story, too, making sure her son’s legacy was taken care of.
C.T. WEBB 03:42 Yeah, it’s pretty far afield on the topic, but I would imagine, I’ve not really done much archival work, but I would imagine that sort of there’s a kind of intimacy involved in being that close to someone’s work in its unrefined form, right? So, to come into contact with that must give you a kind of familiarity with the person, in a way that just kind of the antiseptic version of the book or the Wikipedia article, or something like that, doesn’t quite give you.
S. FULLWOOD 04:21 You’re completely right, so working at the Schomberg Center for about 19 years or so, you would watch people actually sometimes cry, because they would be reading letters that they haven’t wrote to a person, now it’s in the archive, and they’re doing that memory thing. So in a way, I remember thinking of myself as an undertaker, in a way, of papers and so forth, but also very interested in making sure that certain kinds of stories are told as recommending collections. A lot of folks come in knowing what they’re looking for, but they may not know about this particular person, or this organization, or this subject collection, so it can be very intimate reading letters that weren’t intended for you.
C.T. WEBB 05:02 Sure. Yeah, yeah.
S. FULLWOOD 05:05 And I love it that the Schomberg, like a lot of archives, is in a public institution, so anyone can come in. So there’s not just say, “Oh, you have to be an academic, or someone of name or note to access this material.” I think archives really make the community more responsible. I mean, it makes our communities more diverse and more thoughtful and engaging when we have different kinds of collections housed and archived, so.
C.T. WEBB 05:33 Yeah. I mean, and it speaks to legitimacy, right? I mean, the things that you’re saving are the things that matter, so yeah.
S. FULLWOOD 05:40 It speaks to it, which is very tricky [laughter]. Very tricky. Because I’m sure, we can’t– every library and archive can never collect everything.
C.T. WEBB 05:48 Nope. Not even. I mean, not even, Not everything. Not even a thimbleful of everything. Just not even in the ballpark.
S. FULLWOOD 05:58 Absolutely, so. And what do you do about that [laughter]?
C.T. WEBB 06:01 Yeah.
S. FULLWOOD 06:02 What do you do about that?
C.T. WEBB 06:03 Okay, so today’s topic is [laughter] UFOs.
S. FULLWOOD 06:06 Very disparate.
C.T. WEBB 06:09 So definitely a little bit more far afield, but I don’t know, I just wanted to know a little bit more about your work–
S. FULLWOOD 06:15 I appreciate it.
C.T. WEBB 06:15 –and thought other people would be interested, too, so.
S. FULLWOOD 06:18 Thank you.
C.T. WEBB 06:19 So I proposed the topic, actually, based on a chance conversation that Steven and I had around an article that I had recently read about a department in the US Airforce or Pentagon that houses information on UFOs, and the number of straight-up legitimate claims there are, verified, documented, sober, military, not tinfoil hat stuff. And I mentioned this, just in passing, to Steven and it turned out Steven had a pretty abiding interest in UFOs, so I thought, “Why not? Let’s do something a little bit lighter, so [laughter].” So Steven, why don’t you take us in to unidentified flying objects?
S. FULLWOOD 07:09 Well, let’s hope it’s a little lighter. It’s fun for me, and I think I remember sending you some questions this morning that I’ll kind of get to. But I think the reason why I wanted to do a podcast on it is because I’ve been– all my life I’ve been interested, fascinated really, about UFOs, unidentified flying objects. And so, as the years have gone on, and now that we have the internet – thank goodness we have the internet. We have so much more access to resources, and people, people’s firsthand accounts of seeing a UFO. And it’s really a rabbit-hole, because, kind of what you said earlier about legitimate claims versus the tinfoil hat people. Well, the tinfoil hat people have a lot of material on the internet, YouTube alone. And so, I’m big on listening to, watching and discussing conspiracy theories but I’m not a conspiracy theorist. I don’t have that energy or the interest. I’m just more like– I like the idea of thinking differently about things. And sometimes I think because it’s such a – the UFOs -are such an outrageous idea for a lot of folks that think we’re the only people that ever existed on earth in this small part of the galaxy amongst thousands and millions of other galaxies, it seems ridiculous to me. And so the reason I proposed this is because I was wondering what you thought about these things. My recent theory, the one I propose so for the listeners and see [inaudible] what this I’m struck by UFOs such a diverse groups, it’s such a diverse set of people approaching it from the scientific, some folks are philosophically, some folks are straight at conspiracy, i.e lizard man, reptile man, excuse me, and–
C.T. WEBB 09:13 Thank you for that correction. I was really–
S. FULLWOOD 09:15 Yeah, [it’s like the?] lizard man laughter] [crosstalk].
C.T. WEBB 09:17 –it’s a very offensive term to the reptile people [laughter].
S. FULLWOOD 09:22 The different kinds of aliens that have already visited this earth [inaudible] has visited earth and what not. And so I want to start with a story very briefly and then just kind of ask you a few questions. And so for me when I was a child, I remember having a dream. And in the dream, I’m the only person [in the dream?] in my– I’m in my parents’ home. It’s early morning, a lot of my dreams happen early in the morning, so I remember walking downstairs, there’s nobody up, and I’m from a family of seven, everyone’s asleep or not there, and I look outside the window, and our house is situated directly in the middle of the block under a streetlight. And so this very tiny spaceship lands right under the streetlight and I remember looking at it, and their lights came on, two people got out, two things got out of it. And suddenly I was holding a baby. And instead of running upstairs or running further into the house, I ran outside the house. And as I’m running they shoot me with a gun, some sort of ray gun, and I freeze, and I woke up. So I had to be 17 or 18 I think. And I remember the feeling I had let me– it wasn’t like I was scared, I had to protect the baby, that’s what I remember, is that I had to protect the baby.
C.T. WEBB 10:47 You probably should not have run at the UFO if you were trying to protect the baby.
S. FULLWOOD 10:50 That’s what I was thinking, right? I shouldn’t have [laughter]. These people can do all kinds of things. What am I doing? So–
C.T. WEBB 10:55 You’re not babysitting for me anytime soon.
S. FULLWOOD 10:58 Thank you [inaudible]. And I have a child too by the way. So over the years, I’ve just developed an interest in what people think about UFOs, what I think about them, the TV shows and movies, Close Encounters of the Third Kind. There are a number of films that deal with aliens, and I was struck by this idea that aliens are either evil or they are ET, right? And we got to help them get home. And that there was nothing in between and I’m starting to see there’s more in between that’s available online. And it’s theoretically, scientist are saying, I think James Gates who’s a theoretical physicist, was talking about that he’s found computer code in the universe and it’s not in some the equations in the universe, and that it’s a very specific kind of code, which is a self-correcting code. And so you might ask me, “What does that have to do with UFOs?” What I’m learning and thinking is that the idea of something unknown, or UFO, or alien, all of that is really a state of consciousness. And this is where I find many of the sort of books and talking heads. I find that fascinating because I feel we might be living in multiple states of consciousness, but then we only really focus on one. That’s my theory.
C.T. WEBB 12:27 So, okay [laughter]. So, no, no. So the James Gates thing, the one I would say, what period of [your?] journal was that published in? But [laughter] that’s the–
S. FULLWOOD 12:37 Oh, definitely yes.
C.T. WEBB 12:39 This is my rational brain kicking in which you and I have talked about. When I was younger, I had a pretty serious interest in UFOs and conspiracy theories and what not and read all kinds of books around them. Read this really, really crazy one called On a Pale Horse, which is obviously a reference to the bible. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I found it in a Borders bookstore. And, of course, I was like 14 or 15 and read this and it blew my mind. At first, it’s all nonsense. And so I as a young man was pretty seriously steeped in those stories. Then I grew up, but I can actually remember a specific turning point in how I thought about them. I read up in the– this is again kind of another lifetime before I was more serious about academic study. I read a book called– a book by Michael Murphy, who is a pretty well known, sort of, eastern-western philosophical syncretists. So I don’t want to– the first descriptor I reach for was new age, but I think he would reject that label. And I don’t think it’s probably fair to call him new age-y. But he’s very much– he wrote a book about the body and the name of it, is escaping me right now. But when we put–
S. FULLWOOD 14:14 I’m looking for it as you speak [laughter].
C.T. WEBB 14:15 When the podcast goes up, I’ll make sure to put it in the footnotes. And he proposes all of these sort of– first of all, he catalogs and then proposes a kind of an overarching theory for a variety of physical exceptions. So what he calls spiritual athletes. So people that can do things that are seem not even really humans. So the marathon monks of Mount Hiei in Japan, who are these people that will circumnavigate the globe in their tracking over a three-year period of time and not eat and drink water. And, I mean, some of them die. The rigors are such that, I always found it a very evocative line, but the rigors are such that you could hear the sound of ash falling in a painting of fire. So, I mean, so in that kind of commitment to extremity and transcendence. In that book, and also long enter to get to this, in that book, he talks about UFOs and what he– the connection that he draws, and he may have been drawing other thinkers, I’m not sure, is that there have always been throughout histories, throughout history rather, although – histories is probably not inappropriate – there have always been throughout history, groups of people, individuals, who have seen unusual phenomena. And in the past those would have been called angels, or demons, or these otherworldly visions. And that the 20th and 21st century analog of that in a secular frame are UFOs sightings. So it’s sort of at the very extremity of a secular worldview kind of where the unknown and the known border one another, where kind of chaos is playing with order and these figures, these ideas, these explanations emerge from that realm, just as they would’ve emerged from a Christian worldview, and as they would’ve emerged from a Buddhist worldview. So when you start jumping into explanations of types of consciousness and stuff like that, it rings true with a particular point of view on UFOs.
C.T. WEBB 17:00 I mean, I actually appreciate you taking the conversation to that direction because I’m deeply skeptical of the kind of, knock on wood, reality of UFOs. Though, I have read things that test that skepticism because I do try to be open-minded about it. The idea that there are more things in heaven and earth, as Hamlet said. And that our points of view, our consciousness, our awareness filters through a significant amount of information and filters out a significant amount of information.
S. FULLWOOD 17:50 Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
C.T. WEBB 17:52 I’m open, too. I’m not sold on it, right? I mean, there is still this skeptic in me. And we’ve got all these weird [signups?] that fire and brain farts and all this kind of stuff. But I am open to– I mean that was William James’ idea. That basically consciousness was a filter as opposed to generative. So James thought that there are all these sort of cosmic pressures and sort of exceptional, extraordinary pieces of information that we are constantly assaulted by whether it be light and sound and all the rest of it. And that consciousness actually filters out stuff rather than producing the things that we see. It actually just filters out what is a much vaster universe.
S. FULLWOOD 18:44 So taking that, I was thinking we were speaking about this idea of the filter. So the brand would be more of an attenuator than a storehouse. Is this kind of where you’re going or what you are–?
C.T. WEBB 19:02 Yes. The only thing I would add to that is, I’m not sure I would say brain because there are well-respected psychologists and researchers that have proposed– now this is not mainstream scientific consensus. So I’m aware of what mainstream scientific consensus is in this area. It is not a popular idea. Michael [Giulio] Tononi or something like that – I forget his exact name, again, I’ll put in the footnotes for the podcast – basically, has proposed the idea that consciousness should be thought of as a constituent element in the universe like space. Time, there would also be consciousness. This idea that there is no such thing as zero consciousness. There’s sort of low– I think he proposes a– phi is the Greek letter he uses for it. And he’s actually come up with testable hypotheses for this that are being born out in neuroscientific research. So it’s not fringy. Like this guy. I forget where he’s tenured, but it’s like Caltech. MIT. It’s a major R1 university. So I’d like you to continue, but that– so I would not necessarily say brain, I would say consciousness. And I don’t know that they’re not coterminous.
S. FULLWOOD 20:34 So again, when you were talking, I thought immediately of Rupert Sheldrake. And I thought of Terence Mckenna. And I thought of DMT, and I was thinking about the sort of experiments that Terence McKenna–
C.T. WEBB 20:48 Yeah. Why don’t we gloss those for our listeners.
S. FULLWOOD 20:52 So Terence McKenna. Let me see if I can get a really good description of him. He was an ethnobiologist. He wrote about a variety of subjects including psychedelic drugs, plant-based entheogens, shamanism, metaphysics and so forth. And as for our beloved Rupert Sheldrake is another sort of guy who fucks with– excuse me. Who fucks with consciousness?
C.T. WEBB 21:28 We can swear. It’s fine[crosstalk]. There are very few people listening so it’s all right.
S. FULLWOOD 21:35 We can cuss. Sheldrake was a biologist and is a biologist and author. He’s best known for his theory on morphic fields and morphic resonance, which– and so these guys along with a few other guys that I’ve read either their articles– I’ve only read a couple books by Terence McKenna and Rupert Drake. What I feel like they’re doing is they’re forging a path to move. We are not even the mainstream, but just folks who are interested in different states of consciousness to consider not just what DMT can do, but what just happened in your regular life. The kinds of things that happen that don’t seem to make a lot of sense when we think logically with folks around it about something. I’m not even sure how I got from UFOs to these guys, but I think it was an article about one of the states of DMT they were recording. There is a DMT, the spirit molecule documentary where it was the first sort of study in a number of years, like decades, studying what using ayahuasca in a controlled laboratory environment and in it [crosstalk].
C.T. WEBB 22:46 And DMT is the active ingredient in ayahuasca right? Kind of the molecule that does the stuff that makes it work.
S. FULLWOOD 22:55 Yes. Exactly. Listening to those people talk about their experience, something turned the light on my head I was thinking, well, what if things aren’t coming to earth, but they were just tapping them to some other state of consciousness, while on DMT or without sometimes. Then that leads me back to UFOs and sightings and so forth. And so, I’m curious about a number of things. One, I’m curious is it mass hysteria or is there something, two, we are seeing more things now. And people are recording more things whether it be the phoenix lights or other mass sightings of a particular object in the sky. Are people just having–are they co-creating this reality and seeing these stuff. This is one of my main things, I’m trying to figure out if there is an antidote to something like that.
C.T. WEBB 23:51 So I think probably where I start to– so I am open, I am not convinced, but I am open to the idea that– what I glossed earlier kind of fumbled around that there is more there than we know, clearly there is more there than we know. And that that which exceeds our knowing may completely confound what we currently know. Meaning that what we don’t know may completely turn upside down our current notions of what proper physics, and chemistry, and biology are. I’m totally open to that. I think where my emergency brake starts to kick in, is you’d use the phrase like say “kind of co-create our reality.” As human beings we co-create our social universe. That’s how we end up with some stupid bullshit ideas around like, black people, and white people, and shit like that, and gay people, and all this kind of damn shit stuff. But I think that there is kind of a hard stop, like on a lense, when you follow focus those hard stops. You can’t co create your reality so that a tiger isn’t going to eat your ass or you can’t co-create your reality in a way that like–
S. FULLWOOD 25:10 Maybe you want to test it? [laughter].
C.T. WEBB 25:11 –yeah. That’s right. That cancer isn’t going to ravage you. I think there is a concrete, hard-headed, merciless, red of tooth and claw world. That it’s pretty indifferent to our ability to co-create our social universe.
S. FULLWOOD 25:34 That heart stopped there, so when I’d look at that heart and hear the heart stop I go– so when people see that, when there is a mass sighting in I think 1997, the gloss phoenix lights, what did those people see? Groups of people, single people [crosstalk].
C.T. WEBB 25:52 Gloss the phoenix lights actually for me, because I saw the term I’m– kind of the event– passingly familiar with, but I actually don’t know the particulars of it.
S. FULLWOOD 26:04 Sure. Sure. So the Phoenix Lights, I love having this [inaudible]. It was a mass UFO sighting which occurred in Phoenix, Arizona and Sonora, Mexico, Thursday, March 13th around 1997. Lights of varying description were reported by the thousands of people in a space about 300 miles from the Nevada State through Mexico, so it’s one of those things where I feel very–
C.T. WEBB 26:30 It’s dispersed. It’s geographically dispersed.
S. FULLWOOD 26:31 It’s dispersed. It’s geographically dispersed. A lot of people had the same story. I saw a couple different documentaries where people talked about their experiences, and so I want to just deviate briefly by saying that there’s a book and podcast, same name for the book and podcast, Somewhere in the Skies by Ryan Sprague. I read this book earlier last year, actually around this time and what drew me to this book was this guy was basically just interviewing people who seem fairly normal and they saw something and it changed the way that they saw the world. But it was in a whether or not the UFO’s– it wasn’t a try to disprove what they said or prove what they said. It was just–
C.T. WEBB 27:13 It was just anthropological. Just kind of like their flat story.
S. FULLWOOD 27:15 Absolutely. And it was very instructive for me. And so going back to the Phoenix Lights, you watch people when you go. Were these a different kinds of people? Around that time the mayor had a press conference because people were getting a little excited about it and [inaudible]. So what he did was, he said “We caught one of the aliens,” and someone comes in an alien suit [laughter] and only later on when he leaves office he goes, “Yeah, I saw it too.” So are these man-made structures? What did they see? Oddly enough I don’t think there was any footage. And I’m sure– that’s what bothers me about certain things I’m like, where’s the footage? The footage is grainy, or the photographs look a little weird [laughter]. I’m looking at it. I want to see what’s going on. If these ships or these things are actually man-made in terms of earth-based and people are just seeing this stuff and– but why? Why do they exist like that? What did they see at the end of the day? Exactly, what did they see? And of course, a mass sighting– what does that say about consciousness? What could it say about consciousness? Do you know?
C.T. WEBB 28:23 Yeah. It wouldn’t surprise me if the people– I can’t remember if there was [inaudible] kind of parenthetical here, but there was a movie that kind of plays on what I’m trying to articulate. The scene is, I can’t remember the name of the movie, but the scene is a bunch of teenagers are in a van and they’re all going to get high, but the stuff that they’ve gotten is not actual marijuana, it’s something else. Then the kids kind of all take this stuff, they’re like, “Oh yeah, I’m starting to feel it.” It’s a comedy so they’re kind of making fun of this or whatever. It’s that. That is my go-to when it comes to things like that. Like you don’t want to be the Joe that didn’t see the lights, right? You don’t want to–
S. FULLWOOD 29:16 But there were police officers. There was a mayor.
C.T. WEBB 29:19 Oh, no, no, no, no. I’m actually not saying that I don’t think people saw lights. To me atmospheric phenomena would not– I would bet on atmospheric scientists, meteorologists could posit a pretty plausible explanation for it. What I’m saying is that you take the curdle of what was actually there and then you layer on top of that are proclivity to tell tall tales and to not want to be left out of the telling of the tall tales then you end up with things like these mass experiences or what was weird or strange becomes extraordinary and kind of so, anyway [laughter].
S. FULLWOOD 30:10 I love the way your book [inaudible]. Well, that’s it. Clipped, that’s it. That’s so cool. So I think I asked you a couple questions earlier, and you did answer a few of them related to this. And so, was curious about– I start off a lot of sentences with I was curious about. I’m curious about why I do that [laughter]. We talked about your– do you have an interest in UFO story, in stories, do you find yourself gravitating to them years, other than the article that you sent me the other way, which is basically the government and something around that, but–
C.T. WEBB 30:50 I would say yes, but pretty much limited to legitimate new sources now, so.
S. FULLWOOD 31:00 It’s all fake news [laughter]. I don’t know what you mean. It’s all fake news.
C.T. WEBB 31:04 Right, Right. So when I hear that there are sober professionals that have documented evidence of unusual encounters, my ready at hand explanation for that is some government has their hands on some pretty spectacular technology that most of us don’t know about. I mean, the one thing that I found odd about– we’re referencing right now, Stephen’s referencing a CNN story I had sent him about. I don’t know if it was CNN, but it was also on CNN.
S. FULLWOOD 31:39 It was on CNN. I mean, it was on CNN, but that was a different article.
C.T. WEBB 31:42 Right, I think I had followed it to that article. But this aircraft carrier, these pilots had seen this object, cigar-shaped object, perform these unbelievable acrobatic movements in the air like descending from 10,000 feet at like five times the speed of sound, stopping just above the water, so all of these crazy things. The article did not at all reference– the first thing that came to mind for me is some kind of drone. You can’t put a human body inside, I mean under our current understanding of physics, you could not put a body inside of an object like that and have it maintain consciousness. So you’d just pass out. But you could have a drone, that perhaps, has some kind of advanced propulsion system that’s able to behave in those ways. But that wasn’t any– so sometimes the reason I limit myself to more legitimate news sources, even though they miss it too, is I feel like easier, more apparent explanations are often glossed in our excitement to believe something extraordinary.
S. FULLWOOD 33:03 So the article that you’re referring to that you sent me is called Reasons To Believe. And it’s a New York Magazine article. How seriously should you take those recent reports of UFOs? Ask the Pentagon, or read this primer for the [seti-curious?], it’s a pretty good article. It was fun, very long, but I was very much into it. Just to take what you said a moment ago, in terms of legitimate news sources, so here’s the thing I like about the idea of fake news. That if I trusted legitimate news sources, in terms of CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, what have you, I watch all these things, I read the New York Times, I read the Post and a few other, what we would describe as legitimate news sources, and I see that they leave things out. Then I don’t call them fake, I just feel like in some cases, they [crosstalk] some play to a particular middle. And so, that’s why I like blogs. That’s why I like the desentualization of news in terms of where you can get it. And sometimes, there’s some really great blogs out there and websites that cover some good things. And so, that’s all I want to say about that because I feel–
C.T. WEBB 34:11 I think that’s fair. I think that entirely fair. I think you’re absolutely right. I think you have to do a lot more work when you’re taking your information in that way. And there are areas in which I’m willing to put that work in. UFOs are probably not one of those things anymore, yeah, yeah. But yeah, I think that’s a completely fair assessment of mainstream news.
S. FULLWOOD 34:37 I think I have no more to say about UFOs at the moment, other than I’ll continue to keep my eye in the sky, as well as read and to theorize about what my next idea about what UFO could actually be because I’m preoccupied with the idea of consciousness. Very preoccupied with it given that it’s– earlier when I said the [brain has it’s attenuator?], crunching in information. I love it, well, not love it, there were some– there were a few scientists who were looking at epilepsy and they were looking at other things and said, “Well, what’s happened here with someone who has an epileptic fit is that there’s so much information coming in and there’s nothing tuning everything out because you can’t notice everything.”
C.T. WEBB 35:26 Yeah, I’ve read a similar analogy for it. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I do find that stuff–
S. FULLWOOD 35:33 Fascinating.
C.T. WEBB 35:34 Yeah, and exciting actually.
S. FULLWOOD 35:36 Yeah, what’s possible that we can do with our brains. And so, yeah.
C.T. WEBB 35:41 All right, Okay. Well Stephen, I appreciate the conversation as always. And I look forward to talking with you soon.
S. FULLWOOD 35:47 That’s all right. Talk to you soon. [music]

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